Marianne recently posted about under used plants .
and in the comments I responded with “I’m possibly the only person on this planet who thinks that it’s what you do with any old plant which is what matters really.”
I got an immediate email from Marianne agreeing with me and after a little discussion we agreed to do a joint post on the subject. Which then became joint posts. Here is the first one, and you’ll have to wait for the second. (and third, maybe, who knows? Not us yet.)
Marianne:
Okay, I’ll start. But can we mess around with this idea of what constitutes a “good plant” in the first place?
I think we both agree that common/uncommon is irrelevant. I’m not good with dismissing common plants when, used wisely and creatively, they can do incredible things in the garden.
For me, a good plant fulfils a specific function in the garden, and does it well. It may be necessary to the design, or showcased by the design, but when the growing of it is unencumbered by any type of design, and it’s just about owning something rare and unusual, I have a hard time understanding.
Great love of an unusual plant should beget great care and great placement. It should create an effect bigger than itself – whether it’s a stunning tree that stands alone, or an amalgamation of unusual foliage shapes/textures creating something exciting, or a single plant en masse in a crazy cool way. Am I off base?
Anne: we plant 100 Erythonium pagoda in this two acre wood every year and have done for the past 30 years. This is a glimpse of them. Crazy cool?
Oh, and glad you like the pergola planting. I do too – yet it is completely not what I thought it would be when I began. I had visions of showcasing Allium species. Not with the exposure in this valley – seven hours for my sunniest spots and that ain’t the pergola. A [literal] design flop.
Marianne: The flagrant overplanting of Carex morrowii ‘Ice Dance’ under my pergola that started the discussion.
Anne:
I think it should go the other way round.
A place in the garden needs something – like your pergola needed setting off with something at the base, so we/I/you ideally then think of what kind of effect you’d like, consider the place, climate, soil and go about researching the best plant or plants for the job. Then try and obtain them. (Much easier in the UK since most nurseries went online). And ideally, yes – a single plant en masse in a crazy cool way = YES!
I know we are all liable to fall for a plant we find unexpectedly, as in a …. umm… visit to a nursery. And then wander around, pot in hand, looking for a home for it. (the doorstep?). Not ideal. And at least we could have our needy places (not the doorstep) in mind when we do our nursery visit, so that we can buy appropriately.
Anne: one of those corrupting nurseries…Special Plants, nr Bath, UK
You weren’t, perchance, thinking of Rosemary Verey when you planted the alliums? Well, sadly we all make mistakes and they can be costly. Design flops is part of the game. Look what came out of that one!
Marianne:
I was thinking of great alliums I have loved (which sounds like a terrible name for a book…)
A. schubertii, A cristophii, A. karataviense, A spherocephalon, Nectaroscordum etc. You would have hated the hodge podge of it. It wasn’t a good fit in any case — regardless of the sun. I’ve dotted them here and there which is much more successful. Little surprises. I’ll channel Verey’s allium massing (if not the laburnum) in the more formal kitchen garden if it ever happens.
Marianne: Allium schubertii are better used in more exposed areas of my garden – dotted here and there like surprise explosions.
So you never sublimate the design to the plant — ever? Your needy places are already heavily designed? What about when you were building the garden — still playing? I admit to designing around a plant, but then I cannot admit to the high level of design you have at The Veddw. I am envious and yet it feels confining.
I fell in love with a Poncirus trifoliata (now Citrus) nine years ago when I saw it perfectly placed in a home garden. Got a seedling and it moved with me until I created a perfect little outcropping that showcases it. Ironically, the poncirus inspiration was eventually removed by the owner as he grew tired of visitors getting snagged. I would have removed the visitors. LOL.
Marianne: This year, a bonus! Some ripening fruit on my nine year-old, much-traveled poncirus.
Anne:
I have nothing against alliums
– they are actually affordable over here and I have combined Nectaroscordum with hostas along a whole walk. Because the hostas needed something better than their own flowers, which are miserable and I chop them off. The hostas also do a good job of hiding the disgusting leaves of the Nectaroscordum. Bulbs lend themselves well to being brightening up additions.
Anne: nectaroscordums. in the Hosta Walk
‘Heavily designed’ sounds nasty – how could you!?? (Goes off for a sulk….)
Starting the garden was a tough thing and choice was dictated by which seeds germinated or which rampant plant I could get hold of. So there are parts of the garden I work hard at trying to improve now. ( https://gardenrant.com/2021/06/scheming.html)
We started with an effectively empty plot and very little money, so it was not ideal and not an ideal place for one star plant which would have vanished rapidly in the competing weeds and grass. But true, I did start with plants then – Robin Lane Fox’s choice as outlined in Better Gardening; in particular, shrubs and trees, which tend to be a kind of backbone.
If I had been sensible rather than plant orientated then would I really have created a magnolia walk where the magnolias would struggle to grow at all? No, not really.
So I am describing both my current practice and what I would also recommend to a beginner gardener. It doesn’t mean not falling in love with a plant and using it – as you did, with the poncirus. But doing that is a particular challenge and invites potential sorrows – like seeing a poncirus removed for presumably stabbing people. Or living with a garden which is less than satisfying. We need to discuss the benefits or costs of ‘heavy design’?
So with that, Happy Readers, we’ll end for now and pick up this discussion next time.
The obvious definition is that a Good Plant is “one that does not die on me” – at least, not in short order. In my current garden, my plant choices are limited by soil (clay), zone (7a but for safety I pretend it’s 6), pests (rabbits), budget, my physical ability to plant and/or maintain it, and color (I abhor anything even approaching orange), before I even begin to think about “design.” I also do not want the same plants that get installed in every suburban backyard (begone, junipers!). Therefore, a Good Plant is one that meets 5 of the 6 I listed. Seven out of seven would qualify as a Spectacular Plant, but those have been few and far between, lol
And obviously I cannot count. Meant to type Six out of Six, not Seven out of Seven. LOL
Wish we could edit such obvious goofs in our Comment…. :-/
I’m afraid this very interesting discussion is exactly what Benjamin Vogt has pointed out; gardening for, and from the perspective of, humans only. I’m convinced that we need to look at the places we garden with the view and needs of all the creatures we share the land with. Food, water, shelter, for the insects which feed the bird nestlings which then make music in our skies.
I think the evidence in the UK is very clear that gardening for humans produces great results for the rest of our fellow creatures. And, indeed, the environment. We are lucky too to have so much of our land given to gardens.
I can’t speak for the USA.
I agree with Anne. I don’t find ‘From the perspective of humans’ to be an inherently evil concept, ‘From the perspective of immoral or unethical or irresponsible humans’ … then yes. But most of us garden to enhance (for human eyes) the great beauty of our natural world, and do so with some care to involve the species that surround us. Fergus Garrett’s excellent webinar on biodiversity at Dixter should be required course material for those who feel the two desires are mutually exclusive — or that the human desire to create beauty is morally wrong. Available on greatdixter.co.uk I believe. — MW
Y’All can have at it . . . trying to dissect or parse “good” from “bad” or “overused”. The catharsis involved may be good for your spleen (as in venting); but I am sceptical (<—- Note polite tip of the cap to our Mother Tongue speakers 🙂 that much except sound and fury (inserting mandatory sidewise reference to the Bard) wil be accompished.
Chacun son gout or, to give crredit to the rarely idnetified Margaret Wolfe Hungerford: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."
On the other hand, animated discussion of the merits (or faults) of certain plants is entertaining (especially, if served up with a cold beer, or, in my frozen Mid-Atlantic, a warm tea. Have at it!
Hardly ever met a [civil] discussion I didn’t like. When the topic is some aspect of gardening, even better. It probably stems from a desire to make more sense of an obsession the rest of the world considers a hobby — and a dirty one at that. -MW
And my spelling proofreading sucks! My Bad – – – John
The purpose of a plant is to grow where it is planted! To bring pleasure to the heart as well as the . I live in Georgia. I’ve found to be successful, you really need to prepare your soil,before!! You plant anything. Check where it will be full sun,may,june,july&august! Because they will have a heat stroke then. No matter how much you water,leaves will scorch! If it is all day sun. Thankfully your yard should have some Micro Climates,shade etc.Or you create it . That’s what dictates my designs & plants I use. I love finding that just right happy place for my plants.
If a plant is an ornamental (not primarily grown for food production) then it should be–ornamental, as in not ugly.
I grow plants for many reasons . . .
to please my eye or to please my soul,
to challenge the elements or to challenge my patience,
for novelty or for nostalgia,
but mostly for the joy in seeing them grow.
I suppose it’s the title that has misled. And maybe my poor ability to express myself.
My point was rather that whether a plant is common as muck or rare as hen’s teeth, what matters is whether you use it in the garden to the overall benefit of the garden. Whether its use and placement bring joy.
Otherwise – it’s a collection.
CANNOT READ so I hope you are being PAID tons of shillings and quarters, as The Media vine keeps interrupting at every paragraph with blasting music “Hope you’re having a good time”. Impossible to concentrate with e-brain computer programmers instilling their wills on us poor gardeners.
J, A. Kruza
I am sorry to hear this. I have sound turned off all the time so I was not aware of it. I hope something can be done about it.
Best practice is to make sure that sound is turned off for most websites. We recognize your frustration, but must ask patience with the necessary evil of ads as we don’t have an endowment or grants, none of us are independently wealthy, and the costs of creating, managing and updating a website are substantial.—MW
I see absolutely no ads or music on this (or any other) site, because I have a very useful plug-in for my Firefox browser (and it is available for other browsers as well) called UMatrix. I used to use NoScript but UMatrix does the same thing and has wider compatibility. Most ads run on scripts and so if you block those, you block the ads. Under Firefox Permissions, I also have Block Popup Windows enabled.
Probably I ruffled some feathers by being an “ad-blocker” but I look at it this way: Even if the ads were there, I would not be clicking on them. No matter what they are for, just on principle, lol, because I hate website ads (I pay so that my two WordPress sites won’t inflict ads on anyone.) So, the ad/music-filled page is not losing anything by me not seeing what they have installed, because I would not be responding to it anyhow.
Good plants are the ones other gardener friends dig up and give me for free! Only partly kidding! 🙂
Good plants, in my huge garden, are the ones that are:
-pollinator friendly
-drought tolerant
-visually appealing
-well behaved (ie NOT INVASIVE)
As long as it grows and stays where I want it without putting my well at risk of running low, and looks nice, I’m happy. Bonus if it tastes good – this year I fell even more in love with nasturtium because the blooms are so good in a salad.
The older I get the more tolerant I have become of ALL plants including common weeds . I have come to appreciate plants that in the past I would have removed from my garden & surrounding land . Now I accept all natural species plants have their place & purpose , not just for me but for the planet & all that lives on it . It’s just a question of ‘ right plant , right place ‘
Hmmm, love this discussion. I am a gardener who is only fascinated with favorite plants. Then I have to do something with them.
I find good design is an asset that keeps me in check, from creating nothing but a collection.
We have towering shade trees everywhere. Everything simply flows outwards from them, in whatever dappled sun is available. We grow what hasn’t already died in the shade.
Repeating individual indestructible plants as a border (Autumn ferns, Holly ferns), keeping most of the tall stuff towards the back, settling for just ‘a few’ focal point plants – well placed.
Using evergreen plants as much as possible in an orderly way with only a limited amount of exuberant summer jungle. Basing the garden on colorful evergreen leaves, with flowers and berries just as a lagniappe.
Growing a garden instead of my original random collection of favorites meant I got to discover new favorites.
This is one of my reasons for preferring hostas only cascading out of pots. They are too much of an empty space for the winter garden. At least the pot is still beautiful. And it can root all the burgundy glow ajuga starts that were cascading over the rims of other pots. Ajuga plants that would freeze and die by the end of the winter if left exposed.
For our gardening needs, 4 beautiful hostas are plenty.
Thank you, Matt. Design is where the challenge really kicks in, and it sounds as if you have tough challenges and have found great ways to respond to them. Which is what also makes a great garden.
Forgive me, but all I can think about right now is what to add to Marianne’s arbor…Thalia daffodils, red spider lilies, pink obedient plant, Farfugium, Penstemmon ‘Dark Towers,’ big begonias in pots…. There are so many great good plants and so many different things to do with them. The magic, to me, is when good plants look altogether better together than they do apart. That poncirus is spectacular-structure, texture, form, color-the whole package.
I am loving this discussion. Thank you, Anne and Marianne! It makes my teeth itch a bit to read the disparaging tone (you know what I mean) in the use of the word “collection”. My gardening life began with building a plant collection. Who am I kidding? I’m still building it, and I will continue to do so until I am able no longer. Wandering through my garden–through my plant collections–is a journey through the last 23 years of my life… the 20+ year old dogwood seedling I transplanted from our previous home that just started blooming 5 years ago; the hellebore seedlings from my mom and dad’s garden that I thought would NEVER bloom, so many old daffodils and a few fabulous peonies from an incredibly talented gardening friend who passed away far too soon several years ago, the seed I started from my grandpa’s sweet shrub, all of the plants rescued from numerous older homes prior to demolition (sometimes even DURING demolition), the beautiful little pale sedum dug from the side of a highway outside of Nashville, Tennessee on the way back from an awesome annual convention (yeah, I know that’s probably not kosher or even legal)… So many memories of wonderful people who have touched my life and interesting places to which I’ve traveled go on an on. They are all still there with me when I see those plants in my garden. So, this is all to say that a plant collection should never be disparaged; it is a wonderful thing. The trick is to incorporate the collection into a pleasing design. My gardening A.D.D. is far enough out of control–it is exhausting to have my eyeballs pinging from plant to plant to plant (holy moly, not LITERALLY). There are reasons that design principles exist. I find it a much greater challenge, as an admitted plantaholic and avid collector, to weave all those plants with all those memories into a well-designed garden space. And, trust me when I tell you that my garden as it stands at this moment is NOT well-designed. It is not entirely unpleasing, though. And, as I am fond of saying, it’s good to have goals.
“The trick is to incorporate the collection into a pleasing design.” – You’re right – that is the great challenge. Worth taking on the challenge, though?