Are the days of the Over Gardened garden nearly over?
We have never been able to afford more than day a week of garden help. So when someone referred to Great Dixter having four or five gardeners in a border I was caught and asked myself: does that inevitably improve a garden?
It may depend on what they are doing in that border.
Over planting?
Strangely Dixter is the only garden that I have had several writers write critically about on thinkingardens – along with great praise, of course. Usually along a similar sort of theme. One of my favourites is Robin White’s “I was wamblecropt with flowers”
“Wamblecropt means overcome with indigestion. Once upon a time, you might observe that your stomach was wambling a bit. If the wambles got so bad you couldn’t move, you were wamblecropt. It’s the most beautiful word in the English language to say aloud. Try it.”
Robin goes on: “I desperately wanted space. I wanted stillness in the heart of chaos. But the pond, which could potentially provide that, was itself stuffed full of plants and the patio cluttered up with pots.”
Then I invited readers to write about ‘The Best Garden I visited this Year” and for two people that was Dixter. Valerie Lapthorne praised much, queried that plants in pots were maybe being added to borders to keep them going, mildly disliked corralling plants with low hurdles, and said ‘What I missed were view-points from one area to the next. Something that would tempt the visitor through to the next garden and avoid claustrophobia.’
Ruth Brompton-Charlesworth commented “It was then, that I realised, that even I wasn’t as full of complete adoration for the gardens as I had thoroughly expected to be….. I felt that I had overdosed a little on the vast cacophony of colours and contrasts.”

Cacophony??? (I selected the pic – might not be quite what she was thinking of…)
Does having four or five gardeners in your border tend to lead to Over Gardening perhaps? Is Dixter growing and squishing in rather too much planting? I have not visited for over 30 years, so that is a genuine cogitate.
Do we want natural?
The growing and beneficial trend is for gardens to be as ‘natural’ as possible. Now that is clearly a problematic idea and worth a piece in its own right. (Try this) But I feel sure that many of the practices which continue to supposedly define our great gardens could be ditched with great improvement to aesthetics and the pleasure they offer both visitor and owner, while providing a more natural and relaxed look.
Beds like this consume so much work, what with edging, mowing, pruning, weeding. Is it worth it?!
Staking is for vampires
What about staking? There are many gardens in the UK deformed by various kinds of restraints sticking up in their borders from spring, when stakes look bare and ugly, to summer when they strap plants up.

Edging AND staking…
Curiously staking is partly the end product of the dreaded practice of composting – the business of carting off all the dying foliage to a compost heap, which gets turned and nurtured and heaved about while leaving the poor border it came from with bare soil, rain damage and a loss of habitat for vegetation loving creatures.
This is part of a preoccupation with feeding everything, as if the garden were a yowling baby, desperate for input every few hours. Manure is dragged in, chemicals poured on, much self congratulation of mega effort goes on. Where it would all be better left in peace. All this over feeding leads to big floppy overgrown plants that – yes – need staking. Better just cut and left?

I love the look of a border just cut down…
At Veddw we cut our borders down and leave the dying foliage in situ. It helps catch and contain the leaves which are also in their proper place on the beds waiting for the attentions of the worms. Bare soil is anathema to me and to most of the natural world.
Leaf mould
It’s a mystery what people generally do with leaf mould, but that’s an Over Gardening fixation. I hear of people who have plants which leaves might smother. I know naught of these, but isn’t it possible to scrape the leaves away, to surround and benefit the plants, rather than remove the wonderful organic matter. (I hope to learn from your comments here)
Mad bulb planting
Then there is mad bulb planting. Maybe there’s a machine I’m ignorant of, which plants bulbs with no-one having to bend down? Just looking at this makes my back ache…
Edging
One of my biggest conflicts with fellow gardeners (I’ve had a few) is with that horrible practice of ‘edging’. Surely a move towards more natural has to eliminate that horrid rigid line, dividing plant (usually sitting in bare soil) from grass as if they are deadly enemies. Plant something generous and floppy that will take an odd cut from a mower along the border edge (I use Alchemilla mollis and blue geraniums, for example) and let them live in peace.

When the alchemilla flowers go over we mow the lot off and within 10 days it’s looking good again.
Christopher Lloyd, of Great Dixter, spoke against this ugly practice many years ago. So no-one will be climbing out of the borders to do edging there….. But this – -??!

Owww….

Can’t resist a comment, can he?
Blame them Victorians? (very bad people…)
All these pernicious habits may be the result of Over Gardening in the Victorian era, when gardeners were cheap and had to be kept occupied. In winter that could be a challenge – so wash pots (and get your hands frozen and wet). Clean and oil your tools (necessary until stainless steel took over). Clean your greenhouse to keep it bug free. I’ve done none of these for over twenty years with nothing bad to show for it.
Stop digging!
And at long last digging is being recognised as damaging and a waste of effort – though I have nowhere left to dig now anyway: it’s all planted.
We’ve not had four or five gardeners in our borders, ever. I wonder if it would it have led me into bad ways if we had? I would say that the result of under gardening tends towards a garden looking more natural, more relaxed, more friendly. And more affordable and easier to maintain. Great Dixter doesn’t need that. But most of the rest of us do.
I’ve been saying this for years and even wrote a book on the subject. (apologies for a little promotion..) And I’m happy to report that the gardening world appears to recently be catching up with me. It’s becoming the fashion. I think we may enjoy the result.
BUT – is it sometimes worth it??? Will this actually be the next big thing?
What do you think???
Thanks for writing such a valuable article on Gardening.
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thanks
ben martin
You’re assuming a wish to add fertiliser, I think, Ben. Sigh….
Raking up the leaves was recommended to deter the voles and then the jumping worms, so now I do it. I have read about how terrible the jumping worms are for the garden, now I’m waiting for articles about how to co-exist with them, since eradication seems pretty impossible.
I don’t mind visiting mind-blowing, labor-intensive gardens, because they are the fruit of someone ELSE’S labor. The billions of bulbs? I applaud that, I enjoy that, but I’m not going to take that on at home.
We don’t have jumping worms! Phew!! And voles don’t seem to do any harm. Lucky to be in the UK maybe. Apart from the over gardened gardens – which I don’t enjoy, even to look at.
Precisely! I have a friend who still gardens that way. It’s so meticulous, and rather sterile, it simply takes the joy of garden surprises away! Rarely do I ever see a bird (she also has a cat) nor any pollinators in her garden! Yet, because she has a Buddleja, she still thinks she is providing a Safe Haven for wildlife. Sad. Thank you for sharing this article! Important enough to share on Garden Gossip…
Thank you, Allison – and you must be quite right. Those are not good for wildlife: except for Great Dixter, which does use it’s many gardeners to create fullness rather than bare soil, neat edges, boring planting…..
But I see you still have meticulously shaved hedges!? Now that’s high maintenance. Got rid of most of mine. It was privit which needs sheared 3-5 times/year. I Like the nice clean division between beds and lawn. Must be a control issue. By God I can’t control the spouse kids pets insane politics weather but I can control that bed edge. Water sprouts bring out the controlling gene too,
Guilty. Though most visitors would find it hard to see Veddw as over gardened…..The hedges give the rest a frame. I do love them. And I wonder how we would have made it if I had started today instead of 35 years ago.
But edges!!!!!!!!
Very guilty on edging. Old paving bricks and sandstone that my husband would bring home from his job. Or that I would get from neighbors who were glad to get rid of the pile behind the garage. I can’t take them up now- they are paths for the cats to keep their feet dry. Messy plantings with clean edges.
Bricks and stone are not edging? You don’t need to chop at them to keep them tidy?
Need to chop at them because grass will cover them and invade beds. I have 4′ wide by 20′ long vegetable beds with grass paths in between. I’m rethinking that. I have made mowing a nightmare for husband. It’s the only task I don’t do. Gotta edge the driveway and public sidewalks too. The task of Edging will always be with us in some form.
Hi nice article, gardening has been my life and career since I left school,I am now 77,still working, perhaps a little slower! I worked on the parks department of Coventry, at the city centre, memorial park, crematorium and school sports. I have travelled the world, seen many beautiful parks and gardens, the English have a reputation. I am very proud to be a part of this. I think we should continue to follow our traditions.
Merry Christmas “greenfingers”!
But as we (you and I both) get older, some labour demanding traditions may just become a bit too much, when easier (and more aesthetic) alternatives are available?
I was never so relieved to learn a number of years ago, that we need not till and turn the soil in our flower beds! I had learned the practice from my English (Lake District) grandmother transplanted to Michigan, US. Not doing so has made gardening more enjoyable and I suspect the soil more fertile. As to edging, I don’t do that anymore either, and have self-sown alyssum that seems to take on that job. Of course, aging helps rationalize it all too!
Did your grandmother just grow annuals? I can’t see how it would have been possible otherwise. Though I also have never dug up and split plants, and we are still told to do that.
Oh, she grew mainly perennials, bulbs, rhizomes and shrubs in great borders. She also split perennials which until lately I had thought “required”. Thanks for providing a more sensible view!
All those good things must have been mightily disturbed by the forking!
Thank you, Anne! I read about leaving the garden debris and leaves in situ a number of years ago. This practice definitely appealed to my lazy gardener side as well as made me feel smug about benefiting the plants, soil and insects. My garden has prospered, I never have to purchase and spread mulch, and the plants spread and cover the ground on their own. (Self-mulching?) In rural upstate NY, snow covers it all anyway for the winter. Bare soil and seas of artificial looking bark mulch are anathema to me, as well.
Snow is reputed to be good for gardens too though you’re supposed to go round bashing it off the shrubs and hedges in case it hurts them. I stopped doing that some years ago too, fed up of having snow down the back of my neck. No harm done – though we have one beech hedge now with a wonderful curving side.
We’re lucky. I am told that some people need to remove leaves and maybe plant debris.
Loved reading this, Anne. I have been following these practices for years now because I have no hired hands and I also like to spend lots of time in my deck chair! A Canadian gardener (Larry Hodgson I think) titled his book Gardening from a Hammock…now that’s lazy! I love the curvy frame your hedges provide and loathe the super sharp edges between grass & beds. The photo that really jarred me was the all red tulip planting – sheesh, NO imagination there! Tulips are all about colour play and I have enjoyed the carefully planned & wonderful colour of Keukenhof twice. So there is room in my aesthetic for this type of garden display.
Happy Christmas to you & your Mr.
Yep, imagination is a neglected but critical factor in gardens worth having. Wishing you a happy garden and Christmas too.
Even if l wanted to “loosen up” the garden beds, my husband the retired engineer cannot bear untidiness. I HAVE convinced him that (chopped) leaves are good for the beds, but he will never be agreeable to fuzzy edges. There is a small fortune in block edges at our place, and it does make a nice guide for the weedeater…l think you say “strimmer”. All that to say that a lot of gardeners have to coexist with partners or homeowner rules or whatever hired help they have managed to find.
Ah – I trust you have read Margery Fish?
No…title, please?
There are several, not new, but you might look for ‘We Made a Garden’ and I think the explanation would be there together with a good read.
Curious what can be important or loathed by different gardeners.
A clean edge made with wide slate that allows a perfect (weedeater ditch) edge along the grass and a billowing creeping edge amongst the flowers is my preferred choice. Most of our local grass choices run exuberantly. Bermuda and St Augustine are fairly unforgiving. Hard edging and/or regular maintenance is the only way to keep the planting beds from becoming a disaster in a single season.
Lol, I absolutely loathe maintaining perfectly clipped, tiny leaved, hedges. Nightmare unnecessary maintenance (to me).
I do clip our osmanthus and few other hedge branches loosely back to a nearby node a few times a year. Similar to what some people do to perfectly maintained hybrid teas. Hardly maintenance free! But it provides the ‘fake natural’ look that I enjoy.
Pruning loosely to maintain an ‘official’ shape makes me happy. Lol, for some reason I consider that enjoyable time well spent.
Thank you for your wonderful articles.
Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas to you and a welcome rest from all our variable labours, I hope!
You have me re-thinking my commitment to neat edges. Your garden with the slightly fuzzy edging looks fetching. I will say, though, that it’s MUCH easier to add that neatness or framing (or whatever you want to call it) to a garden by keeping neat edges than it is to keep tall hedges tightly clipped.
Bulbs, though! Tulips might be fussy, but most of the naturalizing bulbs…dang, what’s not to love? How are they more work than other plants? I don’t get it.
Thing is hedges are beautiful, edges aren’t. Edges don’t frame, they shout.
Naturalised bulbs are very little work once you’ve got them in. And much more beautiful than beds full of red ones.
Hi I’m all for the light touch. Only thing is I have massive couch grass problem so in my veg patch here in Italy I have sliced down the edges in an attempt to prevent the adventitious roots invading. I’m currently collecting masses of my neighbours’ leaves and spreading them on the undug parts of my huge veg patch. Do you think that I can just work the dead leaves and wormcasts in in the early spring?
I have not visited Great Dixter, only know of it through writings and photos. Not fair to judge a garden with such a limited exposure, but my reaction was that it was a bit of a mess and disordered. An English garden, I thought, winning mostly high praise. Oh well, the emperor and all that and I have always disliked dahlias.
I think of Great Dixter as a VERY well managed system of natural chaos. It works on its own. I like it.
I suppose even dahlias come in a wide range…..
I adore tall plants, so I will always have to do some staking. I have found the thin metal ones coated with that dark green rubber/plastic stuff are next to useless when it comes to monsters like false indigo. I now go to Home Depot or Lowe’s and have rebar cut to size — 4 or 5 ft. tall usually. They blend in much better than those ugly bare wood stakes as shown in your pic. I do fear losing an eye, though, and have put balls of clay on top of the tip of the rebar. I then also use brown or dark green twine to wrap around the whole shebang. Also, I am as lazy and against fussy, rigid gardens as they come, but I will never stop edging! I have lovely lichen covered rocks as a border around my front garden (a wavy bed, never square/rectangle!), but outside of the rocks, I like to edge with my half moon edger maybe 5 inches, and mulch. Last year I never even finished that job, and I really found that the garden just looked so much less pleasing with weeds, etc., growing in that area. For me, a garden that is full of flowers and even weeds looks SO much better if you have that sharp edge that is mulched.
I am now speechless……
I am laughing here, just seeing your comment now. Are you speechless about anything that I mentioned in particular, or the whole lot of it?
Speechlessness rather fails to provide a reply. All that work, perhaps? Doesn’t sound lazy to me.
Thank you for your quick reply. It is strange hearing anyone describe me as possibly not lazy. I did mention that I never managed to finish edging the garden last summer, so maybe we can settle on somewhat lazy.
I just wanted to add that my house is on a small lot, just 50 ft. wide by 150 ft. deep, so my front cottage garden is around 40 feet wide and 12 or so feet deep at its deepest curve. So it’s not a tremendous amount of work.
OK, maybe all I can say is that we do things so very differently! – Enoy! Xx
Gardening is basically attempting to control nature for our own benefit . It should be quite possible to share our outdoor space with nature to the benefit of all .
Of course.
If only life was so simple . I live in NW France ( dept 53 ) which is very rural with hundreds of small farms & lots of elderly inhabitants. My 2 hectare small holding with many diverse areas designed to bring in & support wildlife alongside my organic vegetable & fruit gardens & small flock of sheep & a dozen chickens. We also run a Gîte
A lot of traditional local farmers sarcastically refer to it as ‘an English garden & twitch at the sight of wetland , thistles or nettles . I have had many offers of help to ‘ level off & drain ‘ such areas & our local farmer informed me that local bylaws require thistles to be cut before they seed .
Fortunately most of our visitors( mostly young couples ) to the gîte book because of what we have here so there is hope , although many of the surrounding villages are still neat & trimmed to the extreme with lines of geraniums, & conifer hedges predominant.
I’m sorry to hear of your difficulties. The French have long been known for their pleasure in the formal and this sounds like a variation on that theme. It’s good your visitors bring you support and encouragement.
I have to have edging, after all I ALWAYS colored inside the line…. I leave landscape crews at shopping centers, hospitals, office parks, etc. do all the over gardening they want. I have always left leaves be, but HST, the trade off is I must be extra watchful for snakes who might hide underneath. Most times I rake an area to announce I’m in puttering mode and so far that’s been sufficient precaution.
Snakes! Well – we have one or two, but nothing much to worry about. We are truly having a global discussion here!
I hope you were lucky enough to be able to spar occasionally with Christopher Lloyd on the best way to plant, and maintain, a garden. You both shared a similar temperament for speaking your minds. Thank goodness for both of you.
Ah, he didn’t have to start from scratch and was never short of help…. (and he took a dislike to me).
Probably because you spoke your mind too emphatically to Mr. Lloyd?
Hm – he disliked me criticising gardens. I’m not sure quite why.
Great article. The garden as yowling baby made me laugh. Now, I do love a crisp edge, as you know, but mine don’t end up looking as sterile as the ones in your bad example. I appreciate your photo of the way you garden without a crisp edge, as I have tried to visualize it. Anyway, I haven’t half moon edged my beds with grass paths for two years, so you have influenced me. I’m thinking about it for 2022, though. The problem is, it makes the paths get narrower and I cannot lose much more path width!
Gardening is all problem solving, ain’t it?! Happy Christmas, Skyler! Xxx
Anne, what a beautiful topic you picked again! So agree with you. I have a garden that is now wayyyy too big for me, so learning some “lazy” habits has become a necessity. I shred the leaves on my lawn to use them as fertilizer and vacuum some of them off my lowest groundcover plants. Rule of thumb: If the plants are completely buried under leaves and have no access to sunshine anymore, they need help. All other, taller plants can help themselves. I still divide perennials – but only because I still need more plants, and cannot afford buying new ones all the time. In the past, I experimented a lot with planting all kinds of new varieties I found advertised (irresistible garden porn). Now I divide what I know grows well in the garden – I still have great variety, but experimental babysitting is a thing of the past… As for tulip bulbs: I got tired of their beautiful performance and then disappearance. A few years ago, I planted botanical (wild ) tulips – deer resistant and reliable returners year after year. Love them. (And, my father’s proven practice: Plant them after sunset, and the squirrels won’t watch you and won’t dig them up. Which saves time and work, too!)
Love your Dad’s tip! Wonderful.
Plants come up through the earth in spring, finding the light, so they mostly cope ok with the last season’s debris or leaves on top of their soil. But dumping a large enough pile of organic matter on top of emerged and growing plants should kill, and can be effective at clearing weeds. Is it about timing?
Tulips are rather expensive annuals. But I am bewildered by the odd (very odd) ones which randomly persist with us, reminding me of plans I had many years ago.
I’ve definitely seen a device online for planting all of those bulbs! It was an article on putting great swaths of daffodils into grass lawn. There was a machine that sliced horizontally under the grass, lifted it, deposited bulbs, and put the grass back. Amazing! But definitely for big public gardens and not mine.
Of course I can’t find that article to link it.
You’d like my untidy garden. Although I think I’ll add some natural stone edging to define the beds a little better…
Some day I will get to the UK and be able to critique all these gardens in person!
I wonder if your machine creates pretty patterns with them? Result = cf Francis Bacon 1625 “you may see as good sights many times in tarts.” ?
Come and see us if they ever allow us all to travel again!
Good article. I garden in a very relaxed way also, no hard edges, cramming the plants in when possible. I’m a plants first type, for example, I will always walk around our garden and observe, all year round. My leaves become mulch and what’s leftover sits in pots, for mulching in spring or for a planting amendment. However, with all my observing, I do make sure certain plants are not going to suffer from wet cold and smothering. (Hens and chicks, sedums, lavender.) And I also remove the mushy leaves of Iris or daylilies just to be sure pests are not as tempted (Iris borer.) My husband and I have a joke going that if I never make a hard edge on my long border, there’s no limit to how much yard I will eventually swallow up.
Yes, I believe there are people who wish that they could float, drone like, over their gardens, so that the whole space could be devoted to plants…..
a natural garden. In this time of climate change and nearing ecological collapse, ‘lazy’ gardening ought to be the norm.
Anne Wareham!
Of course!
Hi I’m all for the light touch. Only thing is I have massive couch grass problem so in my veg patch here in Italy I have sliced down the edges in an attempt to prevent the adventitious roots invading. I’m currently collecting masses of my neighbours’ leaves and spreading them on the undug parts of my huge veg patch. Do you think that I can just work the dead leaves and wormcasts in in the early spring?
I don’t do veggies, Colin, but I certainly suggest you don’t work the leaves and wormcasts into your soil, which is best left as undisturbed as possible. That organic matter will be fine left where it is and you can plant into it, or make spaces to sow seeds into it.
I’m not sure about couch grass – I’ve had it, may still have it, but robust perennials seem to cope with it. Veggies might not so I hope chopping the edges will do the trick.
Dixter’s Fergus Garrett & 5 undergardeners (2 of them scholars) keep the whole of the gardens running, and for what they do I think that is entirely reasonable for a public garden that entertains about 50,000 people a year. If you look on Dixter’s YouTube channel, you can wander the spring border for free and catch a glimpse of how glorious it is. Garrett also has done an affordable series of Zoom classes on their management system, which is actually extremely low input for the exuberant high octane displays they achieve. They ought to get some credit, as well for the meadows and topiary and predominantly organic and sustainable management of the property, too. Christopher Lloyd said something to the effect that aiming for low maintenance in gardens akin to no braintenance. There’s nothing wrong with bedding out if you have the time, money, and inclination. There’s nothing wrong with a bit of staking, so long as it is discreet and unseen. I agree there is a lot to be said for mowing down perennials and leaving them where they drop. As for bulbs, those that naturalize require so little from us after the first planting that I cannot fathom how any lazy gardener would not want strategic masses of them lighting up the garden. Most of us would not be wamblecropt at Dixter. We know from Sheffield University research that when people are exposed to an area of about 30% flower coverage, they are absolutely gobsmacked. If you have the energy, why not go for the WOW factor?
I feel sure you are one of a huge majority and I’m sorry if I have offended you.
However – I do know you can create WOW in easier and different ways than that. I love wow and it’s one of my aims with my much smaller resources. 30 % gob-smacking should also always be easy enough – they are referring to colour, I think?
Not offended, though my hackles raised a bit. To me, Dixter invests a lot of time teaching gardeners about how to get to WOW (high flower coverage) and maintain it without excessive labor. With our small suburban lots, we have to maximize every square foot of garden space and the Dixter system does that. Lloyd once called low maintenance gardens low braintenance. I wouldn’t go that far, and I won’t be shaping topiary peacocks in Texas, but I do think that planting a few bulbs each year and tossing in a few larkspur and poppy seeds doesn’t ask much of someone who enjoys a bit of gardening.
Fair enough. I prefer simpler, and it’s good sometimes to discover (as I did when I received those thinkingardens articles) that I’m not alone.
Our habit as garden writers in the UK is to praise all gardens, so that any of us with decided and different preferences get to feel weird.
YES! To all of this. It’s now an institution for a reason. I mean that in a basic way, not an insult.
It’s good for the ground not to dig if possible but still, many bulbs need planted only once, and sure they won’t last forever perhaps but they also show the passage of time. GD is so brilliant in that it already had a lovely history as a family home (back when not everyone owned one to be frank), and the boy raised there learned the ways of his mother and gardened with her and also just fell in love with Nature. And with the genius of FG it’s kismet.
Have to reply to myself to add, I also frankly need to like buy random plants and garden and experiment even from the DREADED big box store. That’s what you can do in America, tell your spouse it’s productive somehow even though my plants in the garage right now are producing nothing for us! I garden constantly for the hell of it and the love of it and don’t care what anyone says! Hahaha
[…] Wareham just wrote this good piece which questions the need for making leaf mold (and edging lawns). Even though I like making leaf […]
My back yard in a small Piedmont NC city had been a woods before the house was here. Lots of mature hardwoods & enough leaves to cover low ground covers like partridge berry, violets, creeping green-and- gold, small native wildflowers, even cyclamen. So I remove some leaves to compost or shred. Plenty of downed small branches that I break up & leave on the ground. No nice lichen colored rocks, but some larger downed branches have wonderful lichen gardens that I display alongside other downed branches to outline paths through planted areas & eventually decay into the soil. There are always more. It’s an informal combination of wild & cultivated with camellias, sweet box, & hellebores alongside, wild viburnums, dogwoods, & hearts-a-bustin’ left in place.
Sounds sweet!
What about people naming their garden? That bugs me.
That’s ordinary in the uk – – most houses have names which also equals the name of the garden.
So few people in the United States garden….at all. Any spectacle, and over the top display of bulbs, dahlia’s, etc. is welcome. If people become interested, all the better. As to the no-dig methods, I think that would work wonderfully where someone has actual soil. Most people live in suburban area’s with all the top soil taken away. They have to work, and build soil. I live in the mountains of western US….we have rock…and clay. Building soil and digging in organic matter has worked much better here for me then in the area’s that I just covered with mulch. To each their own. Thank you for the discussion, it is much appreciated.
I do realise that methods which would work in the whole of the UK might not on the amazing continent that is the USA. So I’m happy to learn and maybe other people on here will be doing too, from your help. Thanks!