The great Gertrude Jekyll famously and rightly said:
“The possession of a quantity of plants, however good the plants may be themselves and however ample their number, does not make a garden; it only makes a collection. Having got the plants, the great thing is to use them with careful selection and definite intention.”
So Marianne and I continue our email discussion here about how we use our plants ‘with careful selection and definite intention’ – adding links and photos where we think helpful. The first part of the discussion is here.
Marianne
Living with a garden that is less than satisfying….ooo that’s tender. Something to keep me up at night this winter. [goes off for her own sulk….]
You are perhaps pricked by my use of the term ‘heavy design.’ Don’t be. It’s merely a term I used in the moment, to describe gardens that have a very obvious structure, usually typified by a good deal of hedging or enclosure. It was not meant pejoratively. I’m a fan.
The cost of ‘heavy design’ (at least initially) is heavy cost, if you want to be literal – and most of us have to be, unless we inherit a garden and an endowment to go along with it. Or unless we just plain inherit. It’s why you started with plants against a wilderness, and why I am doing the same. Lucky to grasp and hold the land to begin with, and now to build a garden….. But would I actually wish to live in a garden designed all at once with great wads of cash? I don’t know, but I think not. There is something appealing about growing with and towards a design.
Marianne: Late spring 2016 and I’m feeling proud there is anything planted in this field period. And disheartened by how tiny everything is. I’ve traced the general path, but the serpentine bed on the left is still a gleam in my eye – and as flat as a pancake. I uproot everything a year later and go full hugelkültur, outlining the long shape of the bed with the mower at least.
Marianne: So here’s somewhat of the same [extremely unsharp] view in summer 2020. Perhaps you can see why plants come and go. At this point the real winter structure is the fence and various specimen evergreens. Today this view includes the new wooden greenhouse within the fenced kitchen garden. I’m thinking black for the fence – what do you think? [Anne: Yep, black would work.]
Anne
Landscaping can be expensive. Our challenge was to do it affordably. It can be done – and takes time. And that’s good, because you get to see where it’s going and whether it works for you. (I wish I had a photo – but our yew hedges started as a bundle of seedlings that I could hold in two hands.)
Marianne
I am amazed by all you and Charles have done – gives me great hope. And I believe in that – it’s one of the core messages in Big Dreams, Small Garden. But in weak moments (August) I am envious of those who can walk their grounds with a designer and crew in tow, and I get snippy. If Jo Thompson et al showed up at my doorstep offering to do a bit of pro bono, I’d jump at it FAST and live with it HAPPILY. “Let me play with the plants,” I’d say – “just give me some strong bones….”
Anne
I’m glad I couldn’t. I like that it’s our own work.
What’s missing in our discussion so far for me is the actual design. I mean the garden plan, which creates the places where we will put the plants.
Anne: This is ours – and was retrospective. We didn’t start with one. [Marianne inner monologue: This woman is punching well above my weight class. How do I leave the conversation with dignity?] [Anne: ha! Been at it longer than you.]
Anne: Here is a photograph, so people can see what we’re discussing.
The possibility of getting bored with plants themselves, coming, going, growing, doesn’t enter into it much for me. It’s not really possible.
A trip to Beth Chatto’s garden told me what I needed, which was not to make a garden like hers. That helped shape what I went on to do.
Marianne
You don’t pull your punches do you? Poor Beth. But hers is a completely different garden. For one, it’s more of a research laboratory, much like that of our Elizabeth Lawrence but on a much larger scale. It capitalizes on various conditions and microclimates and many of her combinations are very good indeed.
When you think of it as a scrubby, sloping lot with a drainage ditch running the length of it, the ambition and vision is admirable and motivating. There are weak areas which leave you wanting, but damn I don’t feel qualified – based on the state of my young garden and my awareness of what it takes – to touch upon them.
Marianne: Say what you will, but I wouldn’t be ashamed to create this outside my front door. [Beth Chatto gardens in August 2018]
Marianne: Or this. Chatto’s gravel garden. Yes, it’s a laboratory, but a beautiful one. Full marks from me in light of a dry 13 inches of rain up to that point in August.
I think my great enjoyment of her garden had much to do with following her writing for so many years. Fascinating to see the garden in person, and I suppose I always expected a beautiful, wild laboratory, not a heavy design.
[There she goes again with that detestable phrase…]Do you think this is a wide open space vs. rooms issue for you?
Anne
Beth Chatto designed, if I remember rightly, with island beds and planting informed by “ikebana, the Japanese art of flower arranging, where a scalene triangle is used to create an outline that is both harmonious and dynamic.” See here.
It might possibly be described as ‘naturalistic.’ But let’s use that term with caution. Michael King had wise words to say about that, see, “Naturalistic Planting is anything but.” [Marianne: so worth reading.]
I realised I wanted clear divisions, structure, views, many gardens separate from one another where I could do different things. And to be able to sit comfortably in an enclosed space. Most of all framing. Framing which allows and sets off the accompanying wildness. So, not just wide-open space vs rooms.
Framing to set off the planting…
This was/is simply my preference. There must be virtue in both approaches. My point here is just that there is a basic idea and form behind both, from the beginning.
Marianne
“Virtue in both approaches.” An even-handed assessment sure to win you enemies.
The prevailing winds are blowing the seeds of naturalism in this country right now – particularly native-based naturalism. [Anne: This is truly irrelevant in the UK. That bird has flown.] It’s exuberant, dynamic, and it fits the times. And it sounds the best way to create biodiversity; and after all, what sounds best, is best these days. Chacun à son goût be damned.
Yet, gaining traction is a very subtle moralistic framework just under the surface that concerns me. As is that very real [inconvenient] truth so well expressed in Michael King’s piece that these are still maintenance-intensive gardens. Hits newbies like a brick, usually in August.
Marianne: A rich tapestry of ripening perennials at The Delaware Botanic Gardens. Comes with a large team of dedicated volunteers. [Piet Oudolf design, my photo.]
Speaking of Great Dixter, I just finished your post on Is Over Gardening Over, and have yet to comment (though Jenny Price Nelson encapsulated my thoughts in her comments). [Anne – I do seem to raise hackles a lot!]
Here’s the way I approach my garden: through thoughtful stewardship that does not deny, dismiss or demonize the human desire to create art and beauty through horticulture, does not judge plants reflexively based on their passports, and does not bend to fad in either plant or plan (tho I may have a little fiddle occasionally). I hope to come out of it someday with something worthwhile. (Though I reckon it will not fit any critic’s view of an excellent design.)
Marianne: Here’s a drone shot of part of the lower gardens in June 2019 I believe. The serpentine bed is outlined, the juvenile thuja hedge/berm is in (stopping a groundwater seep from the forest). Last year, much of the interior of the kitchen garden was razed to prepare for a formal redesign. So far, only the greenhouse has been built. If I had a crew, I’d partially clear that south facing hillside of mulberry and ailanthus (on rt) to extend the main path and create a terraced, sunny gravel garden. Ah sun. I get so little.
BTW, I’m planning on a very small area that was sown with wildflowers (just to hold it) devoted to these naturalistic perennial drifts. I’d love to punctuate them with your silver balls on pedestals. Brilliant.
Anne
Thank you. You don’t think the silver err..balls (we tend to call them ‘globes’ out of embarrassment) undermine the ‘natural’ look?
Marianne
Whatever you term them, they are a strong but complementary expression of human intervention in a naturalistic setting. They signal ‘garden.’ Much like my habitat nests. Only shiny.
Anne
Michael King is quite right – ‘naturalistic’ gardens are no more natural than Versailles. They just attempt a different look: He says
“The intention of today’s schemes is to make an emotional connection with those things we consider natural. We call them naturalistic because we want to experience the freedom of the open field, or meadow, or prairie that is far removed from our urban existence. By using a more wild looking assortment of plants and arranging them in sweeping drifts and intertwined mixes, we seek to emulate the feeling of spontaneous nature within the confines of our back gardens and local parks.”
I suppose what seems critical to me, before we start sticking plants around the place, is to think of the kind of design which appeals most to us, to give us a framework to work in?
Marianne
Yes, and I’m doing that, but I can’t pretend to having it all thunked out yet – a good plant holding area for onesies and cuttings takes the pressure off somewhat. Every gardener should create one, if they can spare the room – and they have the discipline to keep it ordered, manageable and healthy.
Without those wads of cash I was mentioning earlier to lay down an immediate framework on a large property, we must slowly build towards something – a idea of the design. But how can we hope to follow through with all we plan, or know what will actually work? Theoretical vs. Practical. I’m having to adapt my courtyard plan drastically as a result of finding out what floodwaters are capable of – nine years into living here. It’s changed everything. I am also hesitant to create too much formal evergreen structure in an open, naturally beautiful space.
Marianne: So the photo that started our entire discussion is of what was to be one of two pergolas to create a courtyard. It seems wiser now in light of the flood to extend the hugelkultur beds and direct any future floodwaters away from the garden, not into it. Carex is not fun to clean of muck.
Marianne: And just for fun, here is a wider view the autumn after we moved in in 2013. Mike’s building the chicken run, young David on the roof. The pergola doesn’t exist yet. The mess from the sycamore always will.
I’d say I’m on track with about 40% of the area I wish to cultivate. Connecting the individual areas here is my biggest obstacle – especially with the creek cutting the property in half. A beautiful, temperamental monster.
And I have another fairly immovable object – my husband. Mike loves gardens, but he does not wish to be bothered with the inconveniences a design can wreak on the day-to-day management of a large property or the daily life of its owners – see A Garden Tragedy. You are fortunate to garden with a gardener-spouse.
Anne
The gardener spouse was bounced in at the beginning.
You ask “But how can we hope to follow through with all we plan, or know what will actually work?” – We did it by making a bit, then another bit and so on…always seeing whether it worked all right.
That’s the virtue of managing without Jo Thompson…..
Marianne:
Just for the record, I’m still open to a bit of Pro-Bono Jo 😉
Marianne: Aaaaand what I really remember at Beth Chatto’s garden. If you won’t have a tea room at The Veddw, how about a Prosecco Room? 😉 [Anne: With no shelter it could get very soggy in the rain…..You need £££££££ to build a tea room.] [Marianne: I drink Prosecco in the rain all the time round here.]
Anne
Now we understand….
One thing which emerges, besides how much we actually have in common, is that it seems you are subjected to particular pressures, viz: ‘thoughtful stewardship that does not deny, dismiss or demonize the human desire to create art and beauty through horticulture, does not judge plants reflexively based on their passports, and does not bend to fad in either plant or plan.’
Is that that what we need to discuss next?
Marianne
Do I dare and do I dare….
Until then.
I have read this three times and still not sure what you two are both trying to convey.
Creating beautiful, thoughtful gardens via professional designer, or amateur designer is still a matter of experimentation. A professional or a amateur with many years of experience might be able to predict better then a newbie…..but it still comes down to an experiment in any given plot of land and many different variables as to how something will look,act, etc. A professional might anticipate where to put a path or best place to place a swimming pool. But so will you if you live there long enough….it will make itself obvious after awhile.
I have lived on my land for twenty years and am a much better gardener then when I started, but I still have no idea until I plop something down how it will grow, look, act, with the plants around it. Maybe a professional designer has some different ideas and knowledge that I do not possess. Yet it is still an experiment. Still just ideas. Can the same ideas not be generated by nothing more then living with an area and changing things based upon how they grow or look. Gee the kids and dogs always seem to use this path, rather then the artful one I created….I guess I should change it. Gee the kids want a swimming pool, lets find the best place to place it. Gee the swing set and sand box is no longer being used. Lots of sun there….. new rose garden?
Maybe I’m missing the point of what you were trying to say and I apologize if that is so.
Yes, I understand your difficulty. We didn’t have a point, but set out to have a discussion – which I’m happy that you’ve just joined.
For us, the planting is always experimental when new – there are so many variables, as you indicate. But our structure, arrived at over years, really doesn’t allow plopping in a swimming pool.
It’s rather more semi-permanent (nothing being permanent, of course). So working out how to make the plan and implement it is a challenge for those of us lucky enough to have the opportunity. And it’s perhaps rarely discussed. Certainly in the UK the assumption more and more is that people will employ a professional designer.
Definitely true that each site is different and some are large enough to have interesting features.
For any plot under an acre in a cookie cutter subdivision the differences become a lot smaller.
A good local pro is someone that askes you questions, and listens to the answers, and has lived in that climate for years. They can knock out an 80% success rate and go from there.
Swapping out a few ‘sun’ plants in the 2′ to 3′ range in a lavish predetermined design is pretty easy.
Bringing up the possibility of a pool, or any other large structure, and leaving access for the equipment to build it in a ‘phased’ plan is priceless.
A new amateur/excited gardener will be starting at 40%(?) success?
My joy came from the experimentation and learning along the way. It’s true that nothing replaces that! And learning from my mistakes was priceless (or very expensive).
Using a competent pro (even if just for an overall design and a ‘five year’ phased plan) will save you a lot of money. It also gives you a lot of food for thought. Even if you ignore the plan as your family/ circumstances change and you go in a totally different direction.
After moving several times, I am amazed how much I consistently want to live in a certain type of garden.
‘Normal’ older suburban subdivision, tall (sturdy!) deciduous shade trees, chainlink fence for dog enclosure in the back yard, tallish flowering evergreen privacy shrubs for the back yard, lots of hardscaping, lots of evergreen plants in containers – that don’t have to deal with the maple tree roots, too much summer jungle of ‘just 1 more’ small “tuck in” plant.
That blue print would be my first choice no matter if I lived in zone 9 or 7. (Colder zones need no longer apply)
I’m not at all convinced that a professional could/would have saved me money. They rarely have to design and plan under the kind of financial and labour restraints that we did and which challenged and stimulated our creativity. 35 years of studying, making, re-making, thinking, year round watching and working are not easily bought.
Thank you, I understand. My land is now becoming more semi-permanent now too.
I think that a professional designer in the UK, and maybe on the east and west coast of the US are much more qualified to help and do a good job then in other parts of the US where gardens are not the emphasis. “Landscaping” and blow and go companies are the norm now. Low maintenance landscapes, lots of rocks and foundation plants.
For example I live in the mountains of northern Arizona. We are arid, windy, can get cold (zone 7). The nurseries sell the same plants and ideas here that I saw when I lived in Omaha, Nebraska. There are still about 10 plants used in most landscaping here…. and that is it. If you want to design your garden and really experiment…..then you really need to experiment. Grow from seed, source plants from mail order, etc. Read everything you can. I’ve been here twenty years and I am still in the “see what grows here” stage. I might be in this stage forever. If something works I use more of it, and try to use what I have gleaned from books and magazines and websites to make it look good. Yet I think my approach is rare here, there are few real gardens here. There is a gardening club, but most of the gardens and homes from members of this club have been designed to emphasize hardscape. Beautiful patios and decks with exotic rocks and wood from far away places. Very large and expensive homes and their “landscape” rather then “garden”. Again, few plants are used. There is nothing wrong with this, but I would not call it gardening.
Having lived in the midwest US, and now Arizona, I feel there are few actual gardeners or gardens here. I’m sure the UK, with gardening so important to the culture, and the east coast US gardening culture it would be better.
Thank you for coming back again. That’s really interesting, and strange: to read of gardens so plantless. In the UK people seem to be obsessed with plants. And you are right – we do have a ‘gardening’ culture.
What I really love is that there you are, rather isolated it seems in your enthusiasm and creation, yet we are now able to communicate across the world and reduce the isolation, share some of these preoccupations. If only we could transport our gardens too, so we could share and discuss them together in situ.
Perhaps too, some of us will find ourselves able to connect with newly discovered like minded gardeners in our own neighbourhoods too.
Thanks Joe for all these thoughts. This post came out of an email back and forth we were having about plants, and design, and different approaches – and of course the timelines of all. Anne is about 20 years ahead of me in building their incredible garden, but has/had similar resources, so her choices and how she/they made them are fascinating to me – and discussions do meander!
I agree that the UK has a enviable gardening culture, and have defended that position on several occasions. However we must recognize that in a country this vast, particularly if one has lived in more heavily and historically populated regions, it can feel as if gardens and gardeners (as opposed to landscapes and homeowners) are few and far between.
We are also a young country, which creates an apples and oranges situation when comparisons are made with the gardening cultures of Europe and Asia. I have seen too many wonderful gardens, and know too many gardeners, far from the madding crowds of WestCo and EastCo to discount the presence of real gardeners in the interior of the country, creating exceptional gardens that celebrate their unique regions. We’re just really spread out. Sounds like you are creating something very special in your part of this ridiculously huge 3.5 million square miles of USA.
I too am exceptionally frustrated by the increasing homogenization of a national plant palette. There are many reasons for it, and I have touched upon the topic elsewhere, but feathers are ruffled…. Thanks for all your thoughts. I so enjoy the discussion. – MW
“…careful selection and definite intention.” Ha! Absolutely hysterical – best laugh I’ve had in a long time.
While not very relevant to creating small inner city gardens (like mine), with the challenges that come with it, I get lots of takeaways from these discussions. Especially how you tame the guilt and shame tendrils of the natives-only cohort. Which, I believe, are counterproductive to the need to grow more gardeners, gardens and plants. More plants = less global warming. I’m actually saddened by the lack of non-ideological discussion within gardening social media platforms.
“tame the guilt and shame” – by emigrating to the place where non natives reign totally supreme!
But I think people are eagerly trying to find other things to feel guilt and shame about. Remember when it was just sex?!
As always, I love hearing what Anne and Marianne have to say. I laughed when Marianne said she was in a different weight class than Anne. Well, I’m obviously still just an amateur and don’t even get assigned a class. We are attempting to plant mostly native in our yard here in Falls Church, VA and, to that end, we used a native plant designer to come up with a design. So, “I’ve got a plan” but I must confess that when implementing it I’ve had to modify it to the extent it’s almost not recognizable. (I couldn’t stomach the idea of a mass planting of all white next to our all White House and learned she had chosen dry loving plants for wet staying areas, I need some roses just because, and on and on and on). I found the list of plants helpful – the design, not so much. But, if anyone asks me, I can honestly pull out the design plan and wave it under their nose.
I think Marianne IS in a different weight class and I wish I were as thin!
Making a garden is hard. Really hard. I can’t get over how you Americans then like to tie your hands behind your backs and make it harder. Hang on to that plan – it may give you a big laugh one day….
Apart from getting a good giggle from your first sentence Anne, that second one encapsulates this discussion for me. It is extremely hard, but it is so helpful to hear the struggles and thoughts of our fellow gardeners. And the third sentence…yes well, if I have the stomach for it, we’ll have to explore that topic at some point in the future.
Thank you Evelyn – I bet you are battling something I neglected to bring up in the discussion – deer. Falls Church and urban DC surrounds have it even worse than me out here in the more rural suburbs. This is a MAJOR factor in trying to decide what to do and what not to do in terms of evergreen structure. Anne’s gorgeous yew enclosures wouldn’t have made it past their first month here without a 24 hour armed guard.
I do hope that you had strong words with your designer. There are some very talented native-based designers that know their regional palette like the back of their hands, but it is not everyone. – MW
Great discussion! Regarding landscapers and gardeners, I am often reminded of something I read many years ago, and unfortunately I don’t know who said it….Landscapes are to walk in front of, and gardens are to walk through. I live in the Midwest, specifically Michigan, and we have plenty of both.
Good one….
Anne and M., your dialogue conforms most closely to what we, in Appalachia, do in “porch settin'”. That is, casual conversation, punctuated by pauses and by sips of beer, wine*, G&T, or just tea. Such musings are rarely linear but are often filled with insight. *Rieslings, preferred here, altho’ our girlz make fun of Da Missus and me about that. They imbibe in sterner stuff . . . cabs, rioja ‘n’ such.
Sign me up for a continuing subscription to your convos. I look forward to your shared commentary on society’s pressures on what we plant, or are supposed to plant. Or, you are welcome to join Joni and me any time on our porch at “What’sat Acres?”. Passalongs always welcome, too.
Thanks for joining us on the porch John. – MW
Love your response and the invitation! Mine’s a cool glass of white…….
Evelyn’s comment above struck home for me. Having a plan isn’t always what ends up happening. One of the great garden clichés is that the garden is “a work in progress.” It’s true, of course, which is why the statement is a cliché. It’s also true that gardens take a long time to become what they and the garden maker together decide they want to be. Or what they can be. Because designs that look great in one site will look bad or even silly in another.
Designs and desires both evolve, at least they have for me. When I started, some 20 years ago, I wasn’t sure what I wanted in the garden or how I wanted it to look. I read books, magazines, listened to lectures, did everything I could to see what others had done. Very quickly I accepted that many of the plants I had grown up with in Virginia would not survive in rural Quebec. It took me longer, though, to discover what I wanted my garden to be about, which wasn’t based on plants but on finding ways to bring out the history of the site. Many formal designs, with strong geometry and straight lines, appealed to me but I couldn’t see them working in my country garden. They didn’t fit into the story I was trying to tell. But as I grew to know the land and to discover what it wanted to be, eventually I found a place where those formal features could actually work. Or rather, two places. One is now La Grande Allée, a long straight path that crosses an old farm field; the path is lined on both sides with crabapple trees which are wonderful in every season. The second is The Upper Room, an area on a hillside in the woods, where I created a memorial to my mother that reflects the formality of the Virginia gardens I grew up with. In both places, the straight lines and symmetry satisfy me aesthetically and meet the natural conditions of the site.
Your discussion covers so many topics — wander through them, I could say, exactly as real conversations do. The cost of creating a garden and how to minimize it morphs into a conversation about amateur vs professional designers and then switches to the tender topic of naturalistic planting and the use of native plants. That final one is a doozy. But do keep on with the exchanges. Each subject could be a post in itself. And each exchange is fun to read.
We share some of the same concerns Pat. It’s very important to me that I don’t create something that looks incongruous in this open valley – and I think the bisecting, gentle but sometimes raging, creek has much to do with that. Glad you appreciated the discussion, thanks for the thoughts. -MW
These conversations are such fun to read! I’ll have to come back to this one and read it again. I do love that we can talk about this across borders and oceans; I know that there are lots of gardeners even in my area but sometimes I feel very isolated in my craziness. If I’m the only garden in a block of lawns-and-foundation-plantings, I need to seek out other ambitious gardeners to dive deep into theory with.
There also seem to be a lot fewer gardeners here (North Carolina, USA) interested in DESIGN, not just choosing plants to stick in a bed. When you want the garden to stretch from property line to property line you have a whole ‘nother thing going on.
My local botanic garden has a new class called “Conservation Gardening 102” that dives deeper into design and native plant choices than the 101 class did. I’m super excited! I need to fill in around all my roses with natives. And somehow fit more roses in…
I’m looking forward to the next meandering conversation! And read every link from this one that I opened in a new tab, ha.
I think of North Carolina as an enviable mecca of plant people and great designs! Definitely find your tribe – they are out there. Classes, clubs, chatting up owners of boutique nurseries…and so many public gardens! Though gardening can be a solitary activity, it is when we reach out (like you are doing with this class) that the connections and opportunities grow. Good luck -MW
An enviable mecca? I hadn’t thought about us that way but maybe only because I’ve always gardened here and have nothing to compare to. Thanks for the encouragement! I’m going to make more effort this year to reach out and visit gardens and nurseries slightly farther away. How’s that for a 2022 resolution?
While I enjoyed some of what was said here, particularly the part about designed gardens that are made in one fell swoop (which, in my opinion is not a recipe for a great garden, nor is it something most people can afford), but I thought the comments about Beth Chatto came off as catty. I have been greatly influenced by Beth Chatto, and, indeed, I think she was one of the most influential gardeners of her era. Clearly one of these authors does not like the naturalistic style, and that is her prerogative. She should just come out and say she likes a more formal style. Look at the garden she has created. Lots of hedges. And while I can admire that in someone else’s garden, I am not going to have in my garden. And lots of clipped hedges in a garden equals a lot of work and it is hardly groundbreaking design.
Thanks for entering the discussion with us Linda. Before Anne has a chance to respond, I’ll say this: though I do not hold the same opinion of Chatto’s garden as Anne (and I am also influenced greatly by her work), her comment that seeing that garden immediately told her what she didn’t want in her own, is exceptionally honest. I respect that. We all have those moments and those thoughts, and I question that saying them out loud, is necessarily wrong. Perhaps I have been too long in circles where one thing is said in public and quite another in private.
Remember, we’re only talking about immediately recognizing that a design is not the design you want – not that Chatto’s contribution to horticulture is minimal or launching into ad hominem. When the industry moves in lockstep – which is to say EVERYONE gets behind or is accepting of a certain style, plant, design, trend, garden, etc… etc… and to some extent does so because there is great pressure to do so, we suppress our speech, therefore our thoughts, and we do not learn. All industries have this tendency.
I remember staying quiet once on a tour after visiting Le Jardin Plume, as everyone gushed around me. Our intuitive designer-guide noticed my quiet, and teased out my thoughts (which were fairly similar to Anne’s). We were then able to discuss them and I was able to better understand that garden in the context of its culture and place in time. Very valuable. I did not change my opinion about whether I would wish to emulate the design, but I UNDERSTOOD it better, and specific aspects of the design appealed to me more. I was thankful for the opportunity to be listened to charitably.
As an [perhaps unnecessary] aside, having read Chatto’s biography by Catherine Horwood, Beth Chatto could be quite “catty” herself at times in her journals. One very personal comment said about a friend of mine really ruffled my feathers and I was annoyed it had been published. However that comment, and others, made me see the human side of Beth Chatto – opinionated, honest, and passionate. Those are three qualities I very much admire when paired with a sharp and reasoning mind, which she most certainly possessed. – MW
Marianne Is right – seeing Beth Chatto’s garden was a critical moment of illumination with regard to what I wanted to create myself.
And I do also believe that more open, honest discussion of the merits and demerits of gardens would teach us all a great deal and improve all our plots.
Oh my, thank you ladies for such thoughtful dialogue sprinkled with delights. And such fulsome post comments & replies. After 20 years in the same garden property I am going to seriously consider my design !
That sounds exciting!
I like the planning part. Drawing up site plans, sketches that I can’t even decipher. I have stuck pretty much with the original ideas of the first plan. Our house was built in early 1920s. I collected landscape design books from the period. The advise that influenced me the most was from one of Mrs. King’s ( this is so Victorian-a lady never used her first name) books for the small urban plot. Stick with straight lines and geometric curves. Trying to emulate the sweeping curves of large estates looks silly. So I have formal beds with informal plantings.
We bought the house from the original owner. She was a gardener. Lots of roses that were gone for the most part as she got too frail to maintain it. But had bones.
She was very frugal so hadn’t re landscaped Came with great soil. Neighbors told me she buried her kitchen scraps in the garden. I would find pots buried in her vegetable bed where she would over winter tender plants. Still have her peonies. It’s cool to find traces of her gardening.
Formal beds with informal planting sounds familiar. I think you’d find something like that at Sissinghurst and many more good gardens. Mrs Francis King? Her book “The Well Considered Garden” has been reproduced as ‘culturally important’.
I’m glad to hear that because that is not one of her books I ever came across in used book stores. I’ll have to get it.
Marianne, thanks for the shout out. Here are my two cents. We seem to be dancing around a natural desire to evaluate our private gardens against the examples shown by those that have become iconic public gardens. This is like comparing apples & oranges, both fine fruits, but with very different tastes.
We could wander into the weeds and talk about “genius loci” and argue the merits of many design styles, but our opinions on these should remain irrelevant to anyone who wants to develop a truly great garden. The only people who need to be satisfied with a garden are those who own, make or otherwise pay for the garden. Christopher Lloyd, Beth Chatto and Vita Sackville-West understood this and that is why we are all talking about their gardens. And yet, there is something to be learned in every garden, iconic or not, even if it is just “Well, I would never do it that way.”
Hi Jenny, I think the differentiation between private and iconic public gardens here in the UK is principally one of quality. Most gardens of any merit at all open under the National Gardens Scheme.
And when it comes to considering how we want to make and develop our gardens we do mostly find ourselves influenced by those we’ve seen – a garden springing purely from the site and pure inspiration, such as Prospect Cottage, is a rarity.
Those of us who take making a garden seriously (you may well say, too seriously) then need to work hard, physically, creatively, mentally and by eager discussion with our fellow maniacs, in order to create a garden we can feel partially satisfied by. And a dream of perfection draws us on, endlessly.
When the great Gertrude tells us, “Having got the plants, the great thing is to use them with careful selection and definite intention,” I immediately hear Beth Chatto whispering in my ear telling me to choose “the right plant for the right place.” Great gardeners differ in their journeys, but ultimately they will end up in the same place, a garden that pleases them.
“And when it comes to considering how we want to make and develop our gardens we do mostly find ourselves influenced by those we’ve seen” Yes. And I will offer a pertinent quote to add to the gravitas of my reply:
“Monkey see. Monkey do.”
Plus, when one cannot visit the garden of choice, there is always Pinterest to research plants and garden ideas. I have become a Pinterest Slut. I embarrassed to say that. But one must find entertainment where it appears.
Ah – if only that were possible! The variety of situation, climate, size and nature of our gardens makes such imitation impossible. All the gawping we may do will never enable us to produce a great garden by attempting to reproduce other people’s ideas.
Amen to that, Anne. (Although, I must admit to gawping at your glorious hedges.)
Glad to hear it – they’re demanding enough!